If you have news items of interest please e-mail me direct  


4 November 2007


Since the Reunion in Calgary this past August, there have been some issues with the on-line version of the Apprentice Directory. 

As you may recall, the original directory was started by Bob Elliott and I offered to put it on the website for easy access. Several years ago Bob e-mailed me aand stated that he would no longer be actively updating the directory, so I changed the point of contact to myself and endeavored to keep the directory up to date and available on the website. This past spring/summer Bob contacted me and told me that he would once again take over the directory and keep it updated. Unfortunately, several issues arose about formatting and compatibility which increased the workload to make it a viewable resource on the website.  So, to ensure that the directory remained current and available, Bob and I decided that the Website version would no longer be updated but would remain available via e-mail updates. Therefore I will put a minute on the website version to that effect and I will advise anyone interested, that Bob is currently e-mailing updated versions out on a monthly basis. His e-mail address is available on the site and if you are not receiving his updates at the moment, just contact him and he'll put you on the list. 

Sorry if this is an inconvenience to anyone and if you have any input at all please contact Bob or myself by e-mail.



Bill Hicks

RCOC Assn / RCOC Apprentice Webmaster 

23 October 2007

The following link comes from Marcel (Benny) Lemarbre, who many of you may know, was a Service Corps Apprentice that did his first year with us in Longue Pointe. Benny has some real great pictures in this link from those days and some of you will get a kick out of the uniforms and equipment that they used.

Enjoy and thanks Benny. 




22 October 2007 - RCOC Apprentice Directory

Bob Elliott is once again firmly in charge of the RCOC directory on this site. Any questions, inquiries, or amendments should be sent to him at: 

Thanks for your hard work and persistence Bob.



27 Sep 2007

Information: Bill Hicks:


Well if you werenít there, you missed a good one. The RCOC Assn/RCOC Apprentice reunion in Calgary the 17-19 of August was a total success and from all appearances a good time was had by all. (they seated approx 160 for supper Sat evening)


It started off on Friday evening with a meet and greet at the Garrison Curling club just down from what used to be Currie Barracks. The food and drink was great and a lot of old comrades were seen. I heard a lot of laughing and can only surmise that everyone was having a good time, or perhaps the folks we hadnít seen in 30-40 years didnít look the same as they once did. Of course we havenít changed a bit eh?

The following day, Saturday, gave some a chance to renew old acquaintances and others a chance to see Calgary, Currie Barracks and other interesting sights around the area. Being from the sticks it gave me a chance to get to a few of those electronics dealers that I donít normally have access to. That evening came the annual meeting, dinner and dance. The meeting was very well attended and went quickly and smoothly. There was only one new member to the executive, the vice moved up to president and Walter Myslicki replaced the vice. The rest of the gang stayed on for present but next year may see a big change. I hope to have the minutes of the meeting for the website as well as a new nominal roll.


Speaking of the website, I gave a brief outline of what has been happening on the web site, including my move to rural Alberta and my lack of free hosting, since I no longer have the availability of Shaw and the multi websites they offer. The Association reimbursed me for the cost of the domains I set up ( and and also voted in $100 to help with the cost of hosting. At the same time I received overwhelming support from the membership and donations to help continue the hosting well into nest year. All told it was a rousing success for both websites.  Of course before the rest of the festivities could begin some pictures were in order. When the call for apprentices went out ĺís of the guys left there seats and headed for the photo area. I think there were Apprentices from the beginning to the end their and some real great photo ops were provided. It seemed to take forever to get the photos over and done with but it went well.


After the meeting we once again had a chance to mingle and chat with some old and new friends. Cocktail hour was just that and by suppertime every one was ready to eat. There was a great roast beef dinner in true Calgary fashion and after dinner, a DJ played for those interested in dancing.


It appeared to me that most of the folks in attendance were there to talk and little groups appeared everywhere. The groups were very dynamic and seemed to change every so often with people flowing from table to table to meet or talk to others. There was camaraderie there that evening that I havenít seen for a good many years. The Esprit de Corps was everywhere and of course there was the rivalry amongst the Apprentice Platoons. 7 Pl had the best participation but there were other platoons that were quickly gaining on them. I think in future years there will be some real competition.


The following day was sick parade and clean up. This year the clean up was minimal as the venue was in the newly renovated upstairs portion of the curling club and it was set up for this type of affair. Unfortunately, I was only able to stay for a few minutes and had to head home to rural Alberta but the guys were appearing as I was leaving so Iím sure that too was well attended. Next year Iíll plan to stay a bit longer.


Well, there it is in a nutshell, I wish I could pass on more of the interesting stuff, like who was there and whom they met but as the saying goes, ďyou had to be thereĒ.

Hopefully in the next several weeks, Iíll receive some of the pictures that were taken and will be able to share them with you on the website, that way you may at least see some of the folks that were there. I took quite a few pictures but will hold off for a while in order to gather more to add to your enjoyment.


I will now take the opportunity to thank the 2006-2007 executive for one of the finest gatherings Iíve been to for some time. The interest showed by the apprentices was phenomenal and Iím sure without the phone calls made by Glen Higgs and his executive it wouldnít have been the same. Thanks guys and see you next year

Hope everyone had a great summer and hopefully this bit of insight to the gathering, will entice some of those who didnít go, to attend next year.  



William D Hicks, CD

RCOC Assn / RCOC Apprentice Webmaster /



15 Oct 2006

Information: (Bill Hicks)   


Received an e-mail from John McKaig reference the availability of a Corps ties. I assure you it took me some time and long distance phone calls but this is what I came up with:


Wood's Courtmounting Services
4311 6 Ave SE
Calgary,AB, T2A 3B1

Mark Wood is the proprietor. His E-mail address is:

"Wood Mark <>"

The ties are $15 each plus $5 postage (1-3 ties) plus GST.

A single order would be $21.40.

An order for two would be $37.45

This information is a year old so I'm not sure how many he has or the wait time if he doesn't???



Next is a web site for Penny's of Thunder Bay (don't install the shockwave player 10, it works well without it) the URL is: and he has a host of things including corps ties and the note at the bottom of the page says, if he doesn't stock it they will get it, which sounds encouraging.


Anyway if anyone has additional information, please advise me. 




One more piece of information for all those concerned, this site now has it's own domain, and as well I have set up a domain for the RCOC Apprentice site at: . None of this is cheap and so far I have financed it on my own but if you are of the mind, I will accept donations, I would like to keep both of these site going as long as possible.


Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense


Bill Hicks




18 July 2006

E-mail received from  Al Truelove 

 Hi Guys;

 Hope this email finds you both in good health and enjoying life.

 Bill; could I pls ask you to post this on the Corps website?


Dear Corps members; As a result of an email fm Gord Gedge, the museum has found an supplier for subj.
The finished crest is of excellent quality and comes in two kinds; one that is sewn on the blazer, and one that has 'clutch pins'

that can be on/off as reqd. We presently have five if each. If interest is good, we can easily order more. As you know, it is very difficult to find anything      RCOC nowadays. Both Phil Sippley and I are very impressed with this crest. We are selling them at $20 (tax incl)

and orders should be placed through me at . The museum is doing very well and thriving.

Al Truelove
RCOC Museum.



23 June 2006

Received this via e-mail and I have already joined. (Bill)


Hi Veterans and/or Serving Members

We have formed a NATO Veterans Organization, that is serving all of Canada and we are looking for Members that have served in Germany , France , Bosnia and are now serving in Afghanistan under the NATO Flag since 1951

Our aim is too be recognized as NATO Veterans as we are 125-150.000 strong but are never mentioned on any remembrance service but we buried 570 service personnel and 926 Dependents in Germany, France and other parts in 44 cemeteryís in Europe after WW II

We are not collecting funds to raise monuments in Ottawa although we are mounting plaques on War Memorials commemorating the NATO and Peace Keepers

Our membership dues are $ 10.00 per year and this is mostly for administration cost. We have a domain name on the internet and a website, see bottom of page. We send newsletters out and I will attach one as well as an application form

At present we have 90 members from Vancouver through all the Provinces and yes as far East as Belgium at NATO HQ

We love to have you join us as NATO Veteran

Thom Pres   Germany 1955-57 & 1962-65 in Soest


Thom & Diny Joordens

332-25 McKnight St

Fredericton N.B.

E3A 9V4 Canada



30 Aug 2005

E-mail rec'd from Al Truelove

 Hi Bill;
 Hope this email finds you in good health and living the good life.
 Bill, I would appreciate you putting the following in the news section of
 the Corps website. You may change the words as you see fit.

 Corps members may find that they cannot access the museum website since last week.
 This is because we are in the process of de-linking the joint website of the museum and
 the LOG Assn of Montreal. In future/now, the Museum website is
 and will contain a link to the LOG Assn (Mtl Chap).
 We will also, over the winter months, produce new content on the museum website
 as we (meaning Phil Sippley and the boys) have revamped displays and given the museum
 a modern up to date je ne sais quoi look.
 Bear with us please. The Corps Museum is alive and very healthy!
 Regards to you all.
 Al Truelove
 RCOC Museum



14 Aug 2005


Tired of the government ripping you off?

This is the year of the Veteran, let's show them our strength.

Lokk at: 


27 Jul 2005


Received in e-mail from Frank Wagner


Bill, I found several RCOC members who have departed in Europe, some who you and other members may well remember


SP 9932 WO2 E E Elke d 19 Jan 1957 age 42 buried Hannover

 SH 61471 Pte H J Haines d 30 may 1958 age 30 buried Hannover

 SH 99426 WO 2 A D Macdonald d 22 mar 1955 buried Hannover

 SC 18771 Sgt R G Bouchard d 8 Oct 1967 buried Werl

 SB 182524 Cpl J R Carron d 18 dec 1967 age 23 buried Werl

 SD 190753 Sgt R Erskine d 12 july 1967 Werl

 SD 192276 Band Sgt W H Schultz d 26 nov 1967 age 49 buried Werl

 SC 11636 Cpl Ernest C Trepanier d 10 jan 1956 age 41 buried Brookwood England


New Tuscon working great but I drive the old buggy the most.

Have a great one




18 Jul 2005


Received in E-mail from: Marcel (Benny) Lemarbre 

Subject: Greetings from a Vet

Hi Fellow Veterans

During the week-end of 02-03 July we were in Halifax and while there we decided to visit the Citadel Museum etc, and just by chance we discovered Veterans were admitted free of charge during the Year of the Veteran, mind you it is not advertised, it is just passed on verbally. We were told it applied to National Parks and establishments administered by Parks Canada, therefore while visiting any of these establishments ask for the Veteran discount, as a matter of fact it would not hurt to ask for Veterans discount at other establishments not administered by Parks Canada.

Pass the word on to other Veterans on you mailing list.

Have a nice summer and happy travelling.

Have a great day





13 Jul 2005

From: Marcel Lemarbre 
Sent: July 13, 2005 1:27 PM
To: Bill Hicks
Subject: Emailing: UN NATO Actual Pin, Petawawa Man, Petawawa Man-1

I just got my order in today the  PEACEKEEPER VETERAN UN NATO pin (Pick it up in the Legion's magazine) very nicely made for only $10.00. Anyone interested in any of those PINS order at: VETERAN'S LAPEL PIN address 12 Doran Rd. Petawawa,ON K8H 1P5 .




29 June 2005


From: Al Truelove 
To: george& 
Cc: ; 
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:57 AM
Subject: The RCOC Museum Thanks You

Hi George; 
I am writing on behalf of The RCOC Museum Committee to you and the members of the PACIFIC REGION ROYAL CANADIAN ORDNANCE CORPS ASSOCIATION, to thank you for the unexpected and very generous gift/donation of $1505 that we received last week. 
First of all, we are sorry that your Association, which has been active since 1981, has had to strike its tents. I know that some of your members, incl yourself, have put many years of effort and work into the Association and we are sure you are all sad to see it close. 
I was going to write directly to Bill Hicks and have him put this on the Corps website but we thought that we should tell you and your committee how grateful the museum is that you thought of us and perhaps on your own 'net' let all concerned know of our appreciation.
You know, in this day and age, military museums are not on a high priority list, and a donation such as your Associations' is a Godsend as it is difficult to preserve our Military heritage for the for the younger generation of Canadians coming behind us. 
You can be rest assured that the monies will greatly assist the museum volunteers in displaying RCOC (and other) Memorabilia for the many visitors to the museum. 
The other reason I send this to you George is to ask you to 'sound out' your Executive/members on one of the things we would like to do with your gift. The main museum sign above the entrance to the museum is in very bad shape. It is wood, the paint is peeling and needs to be replaced. We thought we could use some of your gift and get a new sign, probably in metal. The sign would be bilingual of course and we want to have a dedication at the bottom, saying "Donated by the PACIFIC REGION ROYAL CANADIAN ORDNANCE CORPS ASSOCIATION." I hope I got the name right! Please let me know if this OK.
Well that's about it George. If you could please pass this on to your members and Bill for publication on the Corps website we would be most appreciative.
All is well in the museum. Phil and the boys are doing a tremendous job of revamping displays and updating stuff to keep a fresh look.
Thanks and Regards to you all on the "West Coast" 

Al Truelove 
RCOC Museum. 


16 June 2005


To all Paid up members

05 June 2005


This is not a happy letter to compose for the Association.
As every paid up member was advised, that the reunion for 2005 was being held on 4 and 5 June 05 in Chilliwack.
Our 2005 reunion only had 20 paid up members attending, 17 from BC and 2 members from Ontario.
Our nominal roll list 115 paid members and unpaid members, out of this the number of paid up including 5 life members is a total 72 members. 
The current President, Vice/President and Secretary/Treasurer have filled these positions for 6years, 2 years and 3 years respectfully. However due to personal reasons they cannot continue, and a request for volunteers at the AGM met with no response.
A motion was made to vote on the dissolution of the Association which was passed effective 04 Jun 2005.
Final disbursements of funds was voted as follows:

a. Any paid dues over 2006 would be returned to the member,
b. All financial debts would be cleared as soon as possible,
c. A motion was placed on the floor that any funds remaining after a, b and c above would be forward to the RCOC Museum located in Montreal Que, this option was unanimously agreed to by all voting association members at the AGM.

Two auditors have been elected to carry out a final audit when all finances are finalized.

George Cooper
RCOC Association Pacific Region


16 June 2005

Pacific Region RCOC Association

Established at Chilliwack in 1981 through the guidance of Don Matula assisted by numerous local RCOC members.
Memberships were held from most Provinces in Canada, Reunions were held in Chilliwack, Vancouver, Kelowna and Victoria over the past 34 years.
With the decline in memberships and the lack of executive members, the decision was made to cease operation after the 2005 reunion.
The membership agreed to refund dues to members paid in advance, with the option of members receiving it or passing the money to the RCOC Museum through the Executives.
Finally it was decided, any funds remaining in the Association would be turned over to the RCOC Museum in Montreal through Lt./Col (Ret) Al Truelove. A combined total of $1439.26 was transferred to the RCOC Museum on close out.
The last Reunion was held on the 4,5 & 6 June 2005 in Chilliwack, B.C.

Malcolm Green - George Cooper
Secretary /Treasurer - President
Pacific Region RCOC Association


07 June 2005

e-mail from Don and Shirley Matula 


Hi Guys,

Some of you are probably aware that a "Year of the Veteran" pin is available through VAC at no charge. They have a back log till June, but they'll be happy to mail them out when they're ready. The toll free number is 1-800-443-0394. They will send up to two of them. I just called and ordered them this morning. Chow.


05 June 2005                                         ****READ - IMPORTANT*****

From the Desk of Bill Hicks


It is with great sadness that I report today, the close out of the Pacific Region RCOC Association.

The executive announced at the AGM this past weekend that the Pacific Region Association was unable to find and elect a new executive and in preparation for that, had planned an orderly close out of the Association in the Pacific Region. All monies still left in the account after the resolution of the debts and return of pre-paid dues will be forwarded to the RCOC Museum in Montreal. 

It seems that the interest is no longer there (for the majority) to continue gathering for annual reunions. 

Having said that, I will continue to operate and update the Associations Web Page as long as I continue to get input from the past members and other Regions. 

I personally believe in the Association and hope that in the future it may make a comeback. 


Honi Soit Qui Mal Y  Pense



15 November 2004

From the Desk of James Steed


I thought some of you might be interested in this web site. 

Families of British and Commonwealth soldiers who fought in WW1 are able to trace their relatives' war records through the following web site.

I'm sure many of you will appreciate this site.

May you all have a great weekend and God Bless.




27 October 2004

Email from Benny Lemarbre



The Franco X-Apprentices 57-58 are having a dinner (Down the memory lane) on the 20 Nov at the Officers Mess at old RCOC School on Hochelaga St. If any of you X RCOC App want to join us please contact Guy Tringle at; ASAP. 






Benny Lemarbre went through the Soldier Apprentice plan, with his first year at the RCOC School in Montreal and then went on to the RCASC in Borden, as did many other others. (Bill) 


24 October 2004

QORofC Reunion

Hello once again folks. I have received from several sources over the past few days, requests to add this event to the web site.  So here is the link to the reunion site for the Queens Own Rifles of Canada: 

The Queens Own Rifles of Canada, is near and dear to my heart, it was the first unit I went to on leaving the RCOC Apprentice Trg Company, the summer of 1965.


Bill Hicks

RCOC Apprentice 63/65



28 August 2004

Hi Folks,

Just got back form the Western Area reunion and had a great time as usual. The boys in Calgary really know how to host a reunion. It started off with a meet and greet Friday evening which although wasn't heavily attended the crowd was good and they had to kick us out. Actually, a few got carried away and headed downtown. (ouch! they must have hurt Saturday morning!) Saturday morning there was a Stampede breakfast and although I didn't attend, I was told it up to it's high standard. Only difficulty was the Chief cook and bottle washer (George Cooper) was unable to attend and from all accounts was sorely missed. Saturday afternoon was the AGM and a new crew was put in place to organize the coming year. (as soon as I get a copy of the minutes I'll post them) After the meeting was a social time and then dinner and dancing. The social time was great, I met up with a lot of my old apprentice chums and got some good pictures. (which will be in the photo area as soon as I can get the time to put them together)  The dinner off course was great and lots of it. As for the dancing, I had a cast on my leg so I was a bit restricted but the music was good and everyone seemed to enjoy it. 

During the weekend Dee was busy selling raffle tickets on everything from booze to bears. (you had to be there!) I lucked in on a secondary draw and won a bottle of scotch as I was leaving the building. Almost though I was going to have to leave empty handed, not good for an old bin rat.

Anyway if you were there, you no doubt had a good time, if you weren't there, you missed a good one. Be sure to look at the pictures.



Bill Hicks 



19 July 2004


Hi folks, just a quick one. Below is an extract, from an e-mail from George Cooper, in reference to RCOC accoutrements (blazer crests, ties, etc.) and their availability.


Hi Bill.


Garry Paddley, in Calgary has found a source there for these items, and I will be meeting the owner,  at the Calgary Reunion, to attempt to have members ordering their own requirements directly from the source, and the Association having nothing to do with it, as I don't feel we should have funds tied up in stock, I have seen it happen with, Ottawa, London, Calgary and they all had to reduce below cost to get the money back in the bank.


Cheers George


On another note, I applied for my Veterans plates and within the week, my application was verified and returned from the Legion. I forwarded it on to the local ICBC office and have yet to receive the plates. There estimate is the end of July with there normal order of plates.



07 June 2004

Well, that was quick, I phoned work this morning to have them e-mail the Veterans license plate info to me and had it before lunch. So here it is, compliments of the Corp of Commissionaires (Vancouver Island and the Yukon);

These are in "pdf" format so if you haven't downloaded Adobe Acrobat Reader, it's about time you did. 

Just click on the underlined text to view the "pdf" files. First the criteria for the Veterans Plates and when you're ready, the application form for the Veterans Plates, just print it out, fill it out and mail it out.

I can't tell you a whole lot more about it, at the moment, as I've just sent mine off today, but I will keep you up to date.


Bill Hicks

Web Page Editior



07 June 2004

Hi Folks,

Just returned from the Pac Region RCOC Reunion and if you weren't there, you definitely missed another good one. The Boys and Girls from Chilliwack, as usual, out-did themselves. A hardy thanks has to go out to George Cooper, Mac Green and their committee, they did a great job.

A couple of points from the meeting; 

A motion was brought to the floor in regards to, the carrying of unpaid members, in which, it was stated,  we would follow the constitution and only carry them for one calendar year. 

So take heed Gentlemen, if you are not paid up, you will probably not get a Christmas letter or a package detailing the next Pac Region RCOC reunion in 2005. 

At the same time Jacque Hardy suggested that those who are aware of unpaid members in their area, should be phoning them to remind them of the consequences of not renewing their membership. Several others volunteered to make calls in their specific areas, so hopefully we will get some responses for next year.

On a brighter note, this years reunion was a special on for me. As most of you know I was an Apprentice (Green Monster 63-65) and this year I was able to locate several of my intake from the local area and get them out to the reunion. At the meet-n-greet Friday evening, four of us sat down for basically the whole evening and caught up on close to 35 missed years. We have all agreed that we will be attending a 40 year reunion of our graduation, the end of June next year on the east coast, along with almost 40 others from our graduating class. Information can be viewed on the Apprentice web page.

If you ever wonder what reunions are all about, this is it. Meeting old friends that you haven't seen for years. 

In the next few weeks I hope to have some pictures of the reunion in digital format and will put them in the photo section. As well, I promised an application for the new "Veterans Auto Plates" and will have that in the next week, or sooner. That will be made available here in the news section.

It was nice seeing you all once again.


Bill Hicks      

Web Site Editor



09 November 03


Well, we talked about it for a long time and we were finally able to get some folks out to Metchosin to an RCOC Veterans grave site. Private Reginald Caffery's Grave is located at a small Church in Mechosin, BC and the Remeberence Day services were attented this year by about a dozen RCOC Pac Region Memebers from the Victoria Area. More pictures will soon be available when I find space to locate them. Anyone willing to provide web space should contact me t the above hyperlink.


08 November 03

Gordon Gedge


Attached is a photo of one of our RCOC vets, Bill Reid, who now lives in the Burlington area. While he is not in our Pac Region Assn, I was wondering if you want to put it on the RCOC web site.
I knew Bill when he was serving in Antwerp with our Base Ordnance Depot, 57-59. He also served at 26 COD in Cobourg. He left the service and became a teacher, in the early 60s.


05 Aug 03

Apologies to all. George sent me a Jpeg file with a run down of how the reunion in Chilliwack went. I was trying to convert it to a document file to put it on the website but had some difficulty with that and it has been on the back burner ever since.

Anyway, rather then make it old news here it is in picture format, hope no one has any difficulties with it. 

Reunion Synopsis

As well, here are the minutes of the AGM from the reunion Reunion Minutes

Sorry about the Delay.




19 Jul 03

e-mail received from E.W. Halayko PEng, CD reference Bill C-78


The recent item on the litigation surrounding the issue of the confiscated funds from the three

superannuation accounts in your site requires clarification.

The item is in regards of litigation on Bill C-78.

It would be appreciated if our article would also be published.

A link to our web site would also keep your members informed to the status of the litigation and

other concerns of the Canadian Forces Retirees.




E.W. Halayko PEng, CD

National Chairman

Armed Forces Pensioners'/Annuitants' Association of Canada




PO Box-28029,


1 (519) 471-9232




16 July 03

Passed by in e-mail from Jim Steed


My name is Walter Hardacre, I am 80 next month and I am trying to tie up some loose ends and leave some history behind me for my family.   I joined the former Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps (Permanent Force) September 1, 1939  as a "Boy"soldier and took my discharge on July 31, 1946 with the rank of Warrant Officer first class and appointment as "Conductor". I understand this appointment was abolished shortly after my discharge. My regimental number was P 35384 and almost all my service was with No. 2 Ordanance Depot in Toronto but the last six months was as Chief Clerk in the Central Ordanance Depoit in Ottawa.   I was born August 16 1923 and appointed Conductor Februayr 1, 1945 and if I am not too sozzled from my Sunday night scotch that makes me 21 when I received my appointment. That may be some kind of a record to pass on to my children. ( I still have the original parchment of my "warrant"and discharge certificate).   My specific question is who is the best to help discover if there are any other "Conductors" still alive today and secondly is any of this any interest to whomever looks after historical matters for the army.   Thank  you   Walter Oliver Hardacre 14 Echo Valley Road Toronto ON M9B 4W6 Telephone 416 233 7871.   e-mail address: 




14 July 03

e-mail from Gord Gedge


July 4, 2003

Status Report on Federal Pension Plans Surplus Litigation (Bill C-78)
The following is a status report prepared by the lawyers representing the plaintiffs in this legal challenge (FSNA is one of the plaintiffs).

Where is the case at?
Three lawsuits challenging the Government's taking of the surplus in the Public Service Superannuation Plan; the RCMP Superannuation Plan and the Canadian Forces Superannuation Plan are being pursued jointly by Court Order. The Ontario Superior Court has ruled that it has jurisdiction to hear the cases and that the federal unions pursuing the case are entitled to do so to protect the interests of public servants and other federal government employees. The lawsuits are now at the discovery stage. The Government has disclosed several thousand documents relevant to the issues in the case and all of these documents have been reviewed. These documents include financial data and analyses of the plans as well as hundreds of documents, many at the senior level, dealing with the Government's strategy for dealing with pension surplus. The availability of some cabinet documents remains unresolved.

Once review of the documents was completed, the oral examination phase of the discovery process commenced. The former head of the Pension Division at Treasury Board was examined under oath for a total of 10 days in February and April 2003, and the Comptroller-General has been examined on accounting and financial issues for several days in March and April. It is expected that examinations will be completed in the fall of this year.
When will the case be heard in Court?
Once the discovery phase is complete, the Court will schedule a Settlement Conference and assign a trial date. It is unlikely that the case will be tried before the fall of 2004.
What have we learned?
The discovery process has shed a great deal of light on how and why the Government dealt with the surplus as it did. Briefly, we now know that the Government's approach to dealing with the surplus was intimately linked to its desire to reduce the federal budget deficit in the mid-1990's. The Government discovered that accounting rules permitted it to quietly amortize the surplus and reduce the size of the stated budget deficit, even though the balances reported in the Superannuation Accounts would not be reduced. The net result, which was effectively hidden from employees, was the equivalent of a contribution holiday for the Government for much of the decade - a period in which employees continued to make their contributions in full. To make matters worse, one of the basic reasons for the emergence of the surplus in the first place was wage restraint and salary freezes! By 1995, $14 billion in surplus was already built into the Government's internal plan to reduce the deficit. None of these manoeuvres were disclosed to Treasury Board's Advisory Committee on Pension Reform, which included members from the federal unions.

In 1999, Treasury Board proposed a new pension deal, but the Department of Finance refused to permit any discussion of sharing of surplus or transferring of the existing surplus to the new pension fund. Although it didn't say so at the time, the Government needed to use the surplus to meet its deficit reduction targets. When the employee side refused to agree to the Government's deal, Bill C-78 was the Government's answer. Under this version of pension reform, employee contributions increased and the Government retained all the surplus, which had by 2000 grown to about $30 billion.

Because it involves statutory pension plans, the case presents a number of new and groundbreaking issues. We remain committed to pursuing the case and to reversing the largest surplus grab in Canada.




03 July 03

Gord Gedge

Sugject: 100 Anniversary Plaque Presentation


I am pleased to report that subject presentation went off very well.

As can be seen in the attached 3 photos, a group of Pacific Region RCOC Association members gathered at 1000 hrs, 2 July, 2003, at the L Gen E.C. Ashton Armoury Museum, one of the best military museums in the West, including at least eight fully restored operational military vehicles, ranging from a WW 2 motorcycle to a Ferret Scout car, 21/2 Dump truck, and M62 Wrecker.

On your behalf I presented our 40th Anniversary plaque to Maj Don Manley, the Curator of the museum, for his safe keeping, prominently displayed in the foyer of the Armoury. Don Manley is former RAOC and RCOC Reserve. After the presentation we took a group photo and then visited the U.N. Memorial Corridor, undoubtedly one of the finest U.N. displays in Canada, including every U.N. Peacekeeping medal ever issued. In attendance were (left to right) Ron Marrs, James MacKendrick, Frank Marion, Gord Gedge, Don Manley, Mel Barrett, Joe Kirkpatrick, Brian Johnson, Terry McGinty, and Reg Shelford. It was great to see so many WW 2 vets out for the occasion.

I am forwarding this to Bill Hicks for inclusion on the web site with the

pictures( previously forwarded) of the Anniversary plaque and 4 foot high,

white cement COC badge, to be presented in 2005, when it becomes available. Cheers, and hope your holiday down East went well.


Gordon Gedge 

On that island in the Pacific








16 Jun 03

Bill Hicks


Well, Reunions..............Ottawa is finished, Chilliwack is finished, just the Western Region reunion to go an that's in Calgary in August. Hopefully I will have a new web site for the RCOC Apprentices finished or at least under way by then.

I am starting to run into problems with space on this site. If I don't get rid of a lot of stuff soon, I'll limit out and there will be no new content. As it is I'm so close now I'm not sure if I'll be able to get this page back on.

The Apprentice site has been created, it's just a matter of developing something. As well if anyone has a Shaw account and wishes to donate some space to me, just email me and let me know, I'll give you the instructions on how to set it up. As you know, you are allowed to have up to seven (7) e-mail accounts and with each e-mail acct you may have a website not to exceed 10mb.  It's not necessary to set up another web site, just use a your web space to store stuff; like pictures and that sort of thing. Pictures take up a lot of space so the more graphical the web site, obviously the more space it takes up. 

Anyway, I won't take up anymore space for now and I will keep you all informed on this page as to what is transpiring. The address for the Apprentice sit is:, give me a few days to develop something before you get to surfin'.






E-mail from Doug Townend


The Ottawa Reunion was a real success. 150 plus attended the Friday night

happy hour, based on count of steaks eaten and 182 sat down to dinner

Saturday night.

David Kilmartin stood up and said he would ensure that the Assn continues

not only in Ottawa but across the country. You may hear from him in the

fall. Some attendees also voiced a desire to hold a reunion in other

locations, eg: Kingston. So, it looks like there may be a resurgence of

esprit de corps; lets hope we can harness it. Kingston was the home of the

RCOC School for many years until 1944 and 4 AOD was located there as well

as an RCOC District Detachment in the early 1900s so the city has some real

ties to the Corps and would make a good setting.

My lapel pins sold well in Ottawa but sales are slow at the moment. With

reunions in Calgary, Cobourg, and The Apprentices in Calgary, and the Corps

Museum taking some, hopefully the sales will pick up. I appreciate you

putting the photos and e-mail on the web site. Would it be possible to

move the photos to the opening page of the site under the heading of the

100th Anniversary? They would provide a good reminder of the 100th

anniversary as well as help me.

Best regards, Bill.




E-mail from Gord Gedge


Hi Bill,

Sorry you weren't at the reunion. The attached letter (from the Queen) was given to all 

attendees. I couldn't find it on the web site so thought you might want to

include it. I did not reduce it as I didn't want to degrade the quality

further (200 DPI scan). If I get a copy of the AGM minutes, I will pass

them on to you. Paddy Ryan was elected the new V/Pres. Mac Green is the new

Sec/Treas, and volunteered! Next year's reunion will be in Chilliwack, as

Victoria members, generally, are not supporting the reunions.

Keep in touch Bill.



to see attached letter click here




E-mail from Doug Townend


The Ottawa RCOC reunion 2-4 May was a tremendous success!! and so too were

the RCOC commemorative pins. 

150 people attended the reunion Friday night happy hour ( based on steaks eaten) and 182 people sat down at the Saturday supper. Vic Tweedy and Bob Elliot plus several others were prominent among

the revellers. They also bought the lapel pins. The coloured pin was the runaway best seller with the round bi-lingual pin second. The rectangular pin which the BC folks preferred was a close third.

Attached are a jpeg of the two metal pins in antique silver (AKA pewter)

and the final graphic design of the coloured pin. The final products are

all very good, based on comments from those who bought them.

About the pins:

- the price of the coloured pin is $4.50, the price on the two antique

silver pins is $3.50 each

- postage will be $1.50 for an order of a single pin.

- if a group put in a bulk order, the cost of postage will be less.

- payment must accompagny the order.


Bill Hicks: would you please put the jpegs on your RCOC website for all to ee with the above information and my contact information shown below. 


George: If you still want the sample set of three pins, please provide me your address. I appreciate your offer to show the pins to all in BC and at the Calgary reunion.


To all: the Ottawa RCOC Association will continue. The elders, led by Art

Eady and John Hudson, will be turning over the reins to some of us younger

types to organize and run future reunions. The Corps will carry on!!

Best regards,


Doug Townend

1758 Harvest Crescent

Orleans, ON. K1C 1V4

(613) 837-1916





From James Steed

I'm looking for all airborne jumpers as I am making up a nominal roll for the Brotherhood. Requirements are that they must have passed the Basic Para Course. Info I need is as follows:  Name & initials Nick name

                                                         E Mail Address

                                                         Phone number, City,Prov



Canadian Airborne Brotherhood
James E Steed
RR1 5086 Hwy 38
Harrowsmith, ON
K0H 1V0




From Michael Boire

The Royal Military College of Canada

Kingston, Ontario

4 April 03


I have just consulted your excellent website where I found this name and


I am a serving officer who teaches Canadian military history at RMC. I

am researching the performance of I Canadian Army Tank Brigade in WW II.

In order to begin my research with a proper 'brigade' perspective, I

would like to speak with any veterans of that Brigade's RCASC/RCEME/RCOC

sub-units who would care to talk to me. In addition, are there RCASC

historians who might be willing to talk to me about army logistics

during the Italian Campaign in WW II.



Major Michael Boire, C.D., M.A., bems/ESG

Assistant Professor - History Department,

Royal Military College of Canada

PO Box 17000 Station Forces,

Kingston, Ontario, CANADA K7K 7B4

Tel: (613)-541-6000 x 8781

Fax: (613)-536-4801

E-mail: ""




From Doug Townend


"Greetings all Canadian Peacekeeping veterans. The Canadian Association of

Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping (CAVUNP) invites you to visit our

web site and to consider joining us <>. We

have chapters located from coast to coast. Membership is open to all

persons who have served on a peacekeeping mission and have received the

Canadian Peacekeeping Service Medal or qualify for the medal. Join us in

helping peacekeeping veterans and their families in need, and in

commemorating the more than 100 Canadians who have died on peacekeeping

missons since 1947. For additional information, contact our National

Office at <>".

If you consider this message acceptable to your web site and agree to post

it, I can also provide a graphic of our Association badge to go with the


Thank you very much.

Doug Townend

National Vice President





From Alan Truelove


The RCOC Museum was officially re-opened on 15 Jun 2002 by the LOG Br

Advisor, Col Jacques Morency. In attendance were; RAdm Martin (Col Comdt),

BGen Gerry Glenn(Natl Pres-CF Log Br Assn) Bgen Caron (Comd SQFT) and LCol

Morency; Col Jacques' Dad! Some of us have known LCol Morency since we were

offr cadets! It was great to see him again! In addition; Pete Denny/Chuck

Read/Bill Rankin/Reg Dauphinee were some of the pers who came fm Ottawa for

the occasion! We even had Padre Michaud give the benediction for the new

bldg! I urge any of you who happen to be in the Montreal area in the future

to include a tour of the RCOC Museum in your itinerary!

While the museum has gone through a metamorphsis; the is no doubt that it

was and indeed still is; a place where people can visit and not only see the

museum but can spend time in a calm, serene atmosphere that was and still

is; a place of worship.




From Alan Truelove

We have a new email for the RCOC Museum; We

are an outstation on the Base net. Still some bugs but are trying to work

them out.

We are still waiting for word on our impending move in 2003 into the old MIR

bldg (120)Canex has closed there but there are a few details to work out. We

hope to move sooner.

You would not believe the display changes that Phil and his volunteers have

done this past year! There are so many new displays that it boggles the


Many of you will remember LCOL Durnford, who started the museum; we now have

a display for/of him and it's getting bigger all the time. Ivan was able to

otain his medals; incl the OBE for the museum! Will keep you up to date as we progress. 


Cheers Al Truelove






To all Members

In response to the mass e-mialing today with regards to the Annual Pac Region Reunion, there were several recipients that could not be found. If you have any idea as to their new e-mail addresses Please forward them to for update of the e-mail listings. These individuals and past e-mail addresses are as follows:


Leo Yull -  ***FOUND***

Rick Lundin - 




Our reunion this year was held in Chilliwack, at the Area Support Unit (ASU) Mess. Which is located at what was formerly, the 1 Combat Engineer Regiments building, at CFB Chilliwack. The event was held on 25,26 & 27 May. 

On Friday 25 May, we were invited to join the ASU members in their Friday night gathering which including a weekly meat draw. We had approximately 40 members attend. There was BBQ'd steak or chicken for a snacks and a great evening was had by all. When it came to the meat draw, you had to rush to get in line to get your tickets, and our members were winning so often, they were becoming embarrassed to go up and claim their prize. However, they quickly overcame that problem. Then around midnight, I donít know if their voices gave out or the Geritol wore off, but they began to go home and I assume, rest up for Saturday

On Saturday morning we set up the banquet area and had a quick committee meeting. Some of the ladies went shopping or gathered at one of the local members homes, for a good gossip and to catch up on past times. At 4 pm we started our AGM and it finished about 5.15 pm.(a welcome surprise) We then had cocktails until 7 pm when the banquet of BBQ steak & chicken was served. Along with all the trimmings, it was more then enough for all. This was followed with a great dessert table and lots of coffee. We had 52 members and guests attend.

After the toast to the Queen and the Corps, introduction of new members was carried out. This year we were fortunate to have four new members, as a result of a good Legion Magazine notice. Three of these gentlemen were WWII RCOC personnel and we very proud to have them join us. Our members who had traveled the furthest distance, were Dick and Mildred Elder from Barrie Ontario, great supporters of our association. We also had five members and spouses attend from Alberta.

Following the banquet, we had a DJ that played ďour typeĒ of music. This soon got some old toes twitching, this, along with a few spot dances, enticed them onto the floor.

Around 11 pm the sandman drifted in and you could notice the line up at the bar getting smaller and the DJ getting lonely. He was actually thinking of dancing himself, so we called it a night.

On Sunday morning, a brunch was arranged at the local ABC restaurant and we had 17 members attend before leaving for home or places unknown.

In summation, it was considered to be a successful gathering and the executive were pleased to see the good attendance and the fact that everyone appeared to have a good time. I guess the biggest reward, was getting the four senior RCOC WWII members into our association.

We thank all for attending and hope to see everyone next year in Victoria. The date and details will be forthcoming in Dec/Jan.

The executive for the next year has remained the same via the route of the railroad: Pres; George Cooper, V/pres; Bill Hicks and Sec/treasurer; Terry McGinty.



George Cooper


RCOC Assn (Pac Region)






To: Pacific Region RCOC Assn members.


This is to inform all addressees that the Sidney Branch of the FSNA has recently published Revision 7 of our popular BC Survivors Estate Document for Federal Superannuates.  We sold 1000+ of Revision 6, last year, to BC Federal Superannuates, Notary Publics, Legion members, and retired military associations. The Comox Air Force Assn bought 200, for their members. A limited number were made available and sold at the Pac Region RCOC 2000 reunion in Victoria.
This document is tailored for BC Federal Superannuates and is a concise, easy to follow, step by step summary of actions needed to be completed by one's survivors with all the information required to settle an estate in BC, up to the point of probate,  if required.  In addition to providing space to list all financial asset details, and their location, detailed step by step instructions for the executor are provided, including CURRENT  "800"  telephone numbers and addresses that must be contacted at both the Provincial and Federal Governments.
This is our Eighth printing and with each printing improvements are added.  Our Branch Welfare/Benefits Officer uses this document when assisting survivors after the demise of a superannuate spouse.  It answers the majority of the questions raised by survivors. Feedback from FSNA and non FSNA members across BC, on the form and content, has been most complimentary.
The less than $1.00 profit for each document sold is used by our branch to defray our branch administrative expenses.
While this hard covered 9 page document is available from many FSNA branches throughout BC, who have obtained them from the Sidney Branch, individual FSNA members and non-members, who wish to order, may do so and need to include a cheque for three dollars, for each copy, ($2.00 cost and $1.00 postage), and address their request to:

Sidney Branch FSNA
PO Box 2607
Sidney,  BC,  V8L 4C1.

I will bring a supply of subject documents to the Pac Region 2001 RCOC Reunion, at Chilliwack, for sale to members @ $2.00 per copy, first come first served.

To find out how useful this document can be, ask your Executor who he/she has to notify in Government about your death to ensure the timely start of your spouses pension and the payment of SDB.  My executor doesn't know and most lawyers don't know either, but they can read!

Best regards,

Gordon Gedge
Past President Pac Region RCOC, and                                                           
Treasurer & Membership Director
Sidney & District Branch, FSNA
(250) 655-3502

Honi Soit Qui Mal Y Pense



From Al Truelove



The RCOC Museum now has a webpage/website. It is not extensive but gets the information out to the public. The first picture you see is the left hand side of the old chapel; where we protestants' sat, and the second picture is the right hand side, where the RCs' used to sit; and all this on a Sunday morning! The site was designed and put on the web by our old friend Ron Hebert (ATC/RCOC 60-62)(OCP/RCOC 62-63) Many thanks Ron. 

Site is

If you have suggestions on the site pls let Ron know. 

Cheers Al Truelove



From Bob Elliot



Welcome Benny Hayes

It is an honour to welcome a most senior soldier and Boy Soldier  to the Apprentice Soldier Directory. He is Arnold E Hayes (Benny), The King's Own Royal (Lancaster) Regiment. B.A. Regular. In September 1939 Benny enlisted as a Boy Soldier in the British Army  and later transferred to the Royal Army Ordnance Corps (Sub-Conductor WO1)  and the Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps on coming to Canada. He served at the RCOC School as an instructor and Platoon Sargeant of 14 Pl  ATC. Benny was an inspiration to his men and known to many of the company officers and NCOs  for his wise council and skill in a wide variety of military subjects. His son Gary is currently a captain in the Airforce. At age 77 Benny and wife Flora are comfortably retired and living at Canim Lake BC.

We have placed your name at the top of the Directory  Benny as well as the staff listing in recognition of  your distinguished service to the Corps.





From Gordon Gedge



To: RCOC and other retired CF members

Al Truelove, Ex RCOC/LOG, on the Executive of the RCOC Museum, passed on the following info from the CFPN, (CF Personnel Newsletter),Maple Leaf Vol 3, No 45, 2000, observing two interesting pieces of news:

1. As of Aug 22, 2000, the NOK of eligible serving and retired CF members may claim an increased benefit to defray burial costs. A benefit of $4100 is available to help with costs when the funeral takes place in the same place as the death, and $4675 when a funeral takes place at a location other than the place of death;

2. There is a joint venture by DND and VAC. They have started the Centre for the Support of Injured and Retired Members and their Families. If CF retirees need an artificial leg, wheelchair, prostheses, braces, etc; they can get them from this organization. Phone is 1-800-883-6094 or internet at

Doug Townend, ex RCOC/LOG,  in Ottawa, researched the validity of para 1 above and he has advised the following:

I just received a phone call from The Centre in reply to my query. The Editor of the CFPN will print a correction to the notice in the March issue of the CFPN which will say the increase in the funeral expense benefit is available only to serving members.

Consequently, only para 2 above is valid.  Disregard para 1.


"When a military spirit forsakes a people, the profession of arms immediately ceases to be held in honour, and military men fall to the lowest rank of public servants; they are little esteemed and no longer understood..
- hence arises a circle of cause and consequence from which it is difficult to escape - the best part of the nation shuns the military profession because that profession is not honored, and the profession is not honored because the best part of the nation has ceased to follow it. "
Alexis de Tocqueville
From "Discovery in America"

Gordon Gedge



From Bob Elliot

4 Feb 2001

Dear Ordnance Apprentice Soldier

The year 2001 will provide the first opportunity to test the new RCOC Apprentice Soldier Directory and attempt to reunite us with a most commendable past. We were formed in 1953 at the RCOC School, Longue Pointe Garrison, Montreal, Quebec to provide the Corps with a strong nucleus of professionally trained senior NCOs and warrant officers to assume the business of supply from our predecessors. We certainly accomplished the aim of the program as by the 1960s and 70s, Ordnance apprentices were evident in every area and many stayed the course through Integration and the difficult times to exceed thirty years service. In effect, we became the Corps. We were trained by the best the Corps had to offer and given special status as young men with great potential. They gave us confidence and pride in a Corps that performed an essential and historical function to the Army and the Canadian Forces. Wherever we went, we represented the youth of our training and we were proudly referred to as "Green Monsters". Many also recognized that they were more ably suited for civilian life and left the Army for other opportunities. We also lost others due to death and accident. Regardless of later career choices, we all carried the green flash on our shoulder epaulette for the rest of our lives. That probably explains the current interest in reuniting.

            As a prelude to a full-blown 50th anniversary reunion planned for 2003, the National RCOC Association has welcomed all Ordnance apprentices to join the reunion in Ottawa this May. All details, arrangements and timings are attached and a mail-out is planned to reach those without e-mail addresses. It is recommended that those of you who plan to attend the reunion in May 2001 complete the application form attached and mail it with your cheque as indicated (if you are not already on the Ottawa list). You will receive further details and a newsletter from the National RCOC Association.

If you have any questions regarding the reunion please contact Bob Elliott at (250) 478-3409 or Jim Steed at (613) 372-2294. The very best of Ordnance luck and hope to see you at the reunion.


*Attachments mentioned above are available from the author Bob Elliot at his e-mail address



PSAC and the Snow Birds

from  James Steed January 02, 2001

(origin undetermined)


Many retired PSAC members spend their retirement winters in the warmth of the southern States. The Public Service health coverage is only for 40 days and it covers only $100,000 which is very little under the health costs in the U.S. The costs and exclusions of commercial insurance is very expensive and very risky under their small print for pre existing conditions, making it very confusing. Since the government has taken several billion dollars from our pension plan we feel that free full coverage with no pre existing conditions should be included in our pension benefit package. The auto workers have this plan in their benefits, giving them the freedom to pursue the life style they wish and not have the fear of their insurance coverage. This makes our plan look very small in comparison. A plan like this may take some of the sting out of the loss of the billions that the government took. Retired Member PSAC.



November 20, 2000

Registration kits were mailed to 330,000 eligible pensioners in late



As of November 20, and with 5 more weeks to go in the initial enrolmentdrive, Sun Life has received 97,000 enrolment forms. The first 60,731 enrolment forms processed indicate that:

approximately 5240 (8.6%) are deferrals; the distribution of membership by superannuation group is nearly exactly the distribution of pensioners by group:

PSSA: 64.4%

CFSA: 30.6%

RCMPSA: 4.5%

Others: 0.5%; and

the distribution of member coverage is:

Category I: 46.0%

Category II: 50.0%

Category III: 4%

PDSP members will be receiving a Welcome Kit in December. It will contain:

a welcome letter (bilingual);

a Member Information Card (bilingual);

a Sun Life Member Booklet (bilingual); and

both an English and a French Claim Form.

Pensioners who defer coverage for themselves or an eligible family member will receive an acknowledgement letter from Sun Life reminding them how to register when their coverage under another dental plan ceases.




September 28, 2000


The RCOC Museum is alive and well! This will bring you all up to date on the

Museum; what we are doing and where we are going.

The Museum is one of five military museums in the Montreal area. It is the only

military museum open to the public five days a week. As a matter of fact

John Q Public (in the guise of Vic Tweedy) came in for visit this summer!

The Museum has gone through a major overhaul since our curator took over.

Many of you know Phil Sippley (ex MWO-RCOC-LOG-airborne). Phil has been

looking after things since 93. We have over 8000 artifacts; plus many items

we cannot display due to lack of space (more about that later).

If you visit the only thing that looks the same is the building; where most of you went on a Sunday Morning; sometimes under duress!

Last year we had approx 12000, yes, 12000 visitors! The museum is the only building, other than 106 that is still standing on the Hochelaga side of Longue Pointe. The messes have gone and the quarters; but trees and grass have been planted and laid and it looks good.

The Committee consists of the fol;

Chairman- Ivan Burch

Director- Al Truelove

Curator-Phil Sippley

We also have volunteers who help out and have really put many hours into the museum under Phil's direction.

We are due to move into a larger newer building in 2-3 years time. You will all remember the old MIR? Well it has been completely rebuild and now houses CANEX: who will be moving to another location. We cannot wait. If you would like to e-mail Phil: the museum e-mail is Well that is about it for now. If you are ever in the Montreal area be sure to drop in. The museum is closed Mon and Tues but open Wed _Sun 1000hrs -1600hrs.

WE really enjoy the Homepage and members therein will surely be hearing from us to renew old friendships.

More news later; Al Truelove




September 23, 2000


Sorry this has taken so long to hit the news page, it was forgotten in error.

Reported by George Cooper:


My wife and myself again attended the Cobourg Reunion held the at the Royal Canadian Legion.  This is a one evening affair with no meeting etc held.  

The evening commenced at 1800 hrs with the registration followed by a meet and greet until 1930 hrs.  The Legion WA again had prepared and served an excellent banquet, which commenced at 1930 hrs and was enjoyed by all members.

After the banquet I was able to announce the dates and location for our 2001 Pac Region Reunion, I also announced our departed members.  As well some members purchased RCOC license plates I have from Calgary.

Following the banquet dance music was provided by a DJ until approximately mid night, and the members showed thier pleasure by keeping the floor active on many occasions, but finally the GERTOL started to wear off and the evening came to a close around midnight.  Geoff Coleman was the organizer as usual and did a great job.  

Thanks again Cobourg for a excellent evening .  George & Isabella Cooper



October 16, 2000


Hello RCOC Assn members,


I am sending out this update, as our next newsletter will not be sent out

until prior to Christmas, and you all should be informed that at the

Association AGM in Victoria, at the end of May, George Cooper was nominated

for and elected as our new Association president. George graciously

accepted and is very enthusiastic. The rest of the executive agreed to

continue in their present positions. Our future activities look promising

with a much closer relationship with The Western Assn in Calgary. Plans are

progressing for the 100th birthday of the corps, in 2003.

At the close of the 2000 AGM, in performing my last duties, as your

president, I was remiss in not thanking the members of the Assn Executive,

for their hard work and support. In particular, I would like to commend

Terry McGinty, for his continuing excellent work as our Secretary and

Treasurer. Bill Hicks has been a great V/P and we owe him a well earned

round of applause for his continuing development and maintenance of our

RCOC website, which has taken a lot of his spare time. Our Regional

directors, Don Matula, in chilliwack, and Ken Sinclair, also deserve

honourable mention for their great support, over the years . They were

assisted by other Assn members, which was much appreciated.

Financially, Terry advises that presently our bank balance is $1562.28,

which is healthy, and was achieved by making our reunions self supporting,

to the degree possible. Our Newsletters to all our members is sustainable,

with the possibility, in the future, of e-mailing to those who would be

willing to receive it.

In closing, I would like to thank our membership for your support over the

last three years. Please continue to support George Cooper in like manner.

I will continue to send out periodic e-mails concerning pensions and dental

plans, etc., as I pick them up from my Fed Superannuate Nat'l Assn

channels. If anyone does not wish to receive these updates, don't hesitate

to ask to be dropped from the distribution.

George Cooper's e-mail address is: "george&"

Best regards to all members,

Gord Gedge

Past President

Pac Region RCOC Assn




September 02, 2000


A little news reference our Dental Plan

I'm not sure that I can agree with all the facts as presented by the
AFP/AAC, below. I do know that the Fed Superannuates Nat'l Assn (FSNA) has
been fighting for at least the last 14 years to get the Dental Plan for
retirees, to compensate for the 6 and 5 Restraint Act in the early 80s. The
Gov't compensated the serving Fed employees with the Dental plan circa
87(union pressure?), as part of a pay package, but did not award it to the
retirees who served through the same period. Consequently, the FSNA
continued to lobby the Gov't and had the plan approved, in principle, by
the Mulroney Gov't. The question of who would pay the costs of adding the
deduction from our pension cheques was being negotiated when the Mulroney
Gov't was defeated.

The present Gov't wouldn't discuss it until they had dealt with the
deficit. When they had, the FSNA again brought the matter back to the table
and was successful this time.

I expect that the Gov't did tie in the Dental Plan with the $30 B grab from
our $130 B pension funds, even though they stated that the two were not
related, and if the $30 B grab was not successful, the Dental Plan would
still be implemented (election ploy?).

In my humble opinion, with about $5 B interest being made annually, by our
pension plan, our Dental plan could have been provided free, from that
interest, without costing the taxpayer a cent. This would have required a
change to pension laws, but that could have been done through Parliament.

A consortium of Fed employees unions and the FSNA is taking the Gov't to
court to appeal the $30 B grab, so it is not a done deal, for the gov't
yet. I don't know if the AFP/AAC has contributed the costs of the court
appeal and is part of the consortium.

Meanwhile the FSNA is going back to the Gov't on the basis that retirees
still have not been compensated for 6 and 5, and to get other benefits,
such as preservation and enhancenent of the PSHCP, and a survivor's
allowance to all spouses, regardless of the date of marriage, with no
reduction in the retiree's pension payment.

It is interesting to note that the President of the FSNA is Rex Guy,
retired military, and represents all Federal retirees on many Gov't Pension
and related cttees. As well the FSNA 2nd V/P, Allen McLellan, sits on the
Canadian Forces Pension Advisory cttee, representing all retired military
retirees. We military retirees are well represented.

I don't know if the above has shed any light, but now you know the rest of
the story.

The TB rules for the Dental Plan have just been posted on the Treasury
Board site...

Subject: Information
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000
Organization: AFP/AAC

The attachment is of interest to all retirees.

Please note the written comments extracted from a letter by the Minister
of National Defence to one of our members. The truth now seems to be
out. A dental plan was part of a deal in exchange for the theft of our
savings! The question is, who made the deal for the retirees?

Surely a Minister of the Crown would NOT lie.

E.W. Halayko PEng, CD
National Chairman
Armed Forces Pensioners'/Annuitants' Association of Canada
1 (519) 471-9232
Web Site:-

       The following provides information details on a Dental Plan that is to be
mailed to Military Superannuates in September. This information is to be
posted on the Treasury Board Web site... As soon as it is. We will link to
it from our AFP/AAC site, at
       Note that it is a one time offer and can't be picked up at a later date.
While the maximum amount that can be claimed per person per calender year
is not the greatest, it may be improved by negotiations and so might the
payments increase after two years!

       The AFP/AAC fought for this retirement benefit for almost twenty years.
It was completely rejected out of hand by Treasury Board about 1985 as too
costly. It suddenly became viable with the introduction and passage of the
legalized theft of our superannuation surplus by Bill C-78/99. It must be
noted that the Minister of National Defence, in a letter dated Jun 21,
2000, wrote the following: "In the recently legislated amendments (Bill
C-78/99) to the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act..." "...pension benefit
entitlements have, in fact been enhanced through the addition of a dental
plan, a benefit long requested by annuitants."  (There was never any
agreement by the AFP/AAC that a small part of the stolen retirement savings
be used to cover the cost of a dental plan!)
Dental Plan Article:
       Pensioners' Dental Services Plan Sign-up Starts this Fall. The
Pensioners' Dental Services Plan (PDSP) for federal retirees, first
announced by the President of the Treasury Board early last year, is set to
start providing coverage on the 1st of January, 2001.

       The Government of Canada will pay 60% of the costs, with contributions
from annuitants making up the other 40%. These contributions will be $16.00
a month for an annuitant only, $31.96 a month for an annuitant with one
eligible family member, and $47.96 a month for an annuitant with more than
one eligible family member. These rates are guaranteed for the first two
years, after which they might vary depending on the actual costs of the
plan. There is no GST, but provincial sales tax has to be paid on
contributions in Ontario and Quebec. Contributions will be deducted from
superannuations. The PDSP will reimburse 90% of eligible dental expenses,
except for certain major restorative, prosthodontic, and orthodontic
services that are reimbursed at 50%. There is an annual deductible of $25
per person, or $50 per family. Reimbursement is limited to a maximum of
$1,300 per calendar year per person, and there is a lifetime limit of
$2,500 per person for reimbursement for orthodontic services.

       Annuitants who are already covered by a dental plan may apply for a
deferment so that they may join the PDSP when the other plan's coverage
ends. The PDSP may not provide as a good a coverage as the one already
enrolled in. A specific application for a deferment must be made during the
same period that enrolments are being accepted.

       All eligible superannuates will receive an enrolment package early this
fall that will provide further details about the PDSP, and an enrolment

       Enrolment forms, and applications for deferment, must be mailed before
the 31st of December 2000, to join the PDSP. THIS WILL BE THE ONE AND ONLY

       Superannautes who enrol must remain in the plan for a minimum of two

       A superannuate who opts out of the PDSP will not be allowed to join again.

       Apparently the purpose of these restrictions is to prevent people from
joining and paying contributions only when they know they will have big
dental bills, and then getting out and stopping contributions until the
next time they have a lot of dental work to be done. This would inflate the
overall costs and result in every one to pay higher contribution rates.

       The PDSP is completely optional. It may not suit the particular
circumstances ofsome superannuates. However, in making a decision on
whether or not to join, the relationship between oral health and general
health, and the unpredictability of dental problems requiring treatment,
should be considered. Experience with past dental bills should give an idea
of the cost of dental work that might be needed in the next two years. This
figure could be compared with the reimbursement that the PDSP would provide
over the same period, to confirm that the contribution rates are attractive.

       Additional help or information available after 1 Oct 2000 from Sun Life
at 1-888-757-7427.


August 22, 2000



The Western Region RCOC Reunion was held on 18-20 August 2000 in Calgary, Alberta at the Rutland Park Community Center. 

A meet-and-greet started the affair off on Friday evening. From all reports the attendance was quite good with almost a dozen members from the Pacific Area attending. The Parking lot looked like a trailer park. In particular was the President and Vice, from the Pacific area, who are now both members of the Western Area Association as well. This should make for good communications between the two groups. 

The morning following was a Stampede Breakfast in the same location, with the president of the 

Pacific Region preparing the mammoth feast.





The Old CWO looked good cleaning up the Kitchen.

Hard work and wrinkled hands are no stranger to this old veteran. He was actually washing spuds for the evening BBQ.







The BBQ went off well Saturday evening featuring BBQ'd steaks, Baked Potatoes ala Cooper and lots of salads. To top it off was a huge 20th Anniversary Cake and lots of Ale.

I didn't stay for the cleanup and sick-parade Sunday morning but I am sure it went off as well as the other events.

WELL DONE CALGARY! Another superbly hosted RCOC Assn Reunion. 


Now that that's a fait de complete, it's time to start thinking about the 100th Anniversary Reunion in 2003. 

There have been many thoughts on what should be done and here are a couple.

1.    A Western/Pacific get together in either Edmonton or Calgary, which would be central for the folks on the coast and the folks in Winterpeg. Bill Harper has volunteered to rally the troops in Edmonton if that venue was chosen and the Les Ward has offered to take the task (with the help of the folks in Calgary) should that venue be chosen.


2.    The second choice and one that may prove to be very difficult logistically is to hold a National event in Winnipeg. A consensus of all four RCOC Assn's (Pacific, Western, Central and Atlantic) would be required. My hat would go off to anyone who would like to manage that beast. I am sure it would have to be someone residing in Winterpeg. Know a candidate?


Well, send your proposals to your heads of state (Association President/Vice/Secretary Treasurer)

And let's not let it lag on to long, eh!



July 17, 2000




Ottawa - The Honourable Lucienne Robillard, President of the Treasury Board

of Canada, Minister responsible for Infrastructure and Member of Parliament

for Westmount Ville-Marie announced today that Sun Life Assurance Company

of Canada, a wholly owned subsidiary of Sun Life Financial Services of

Canada Inc., has been appointed to administer the new Pensioners Dental

Services Plan (PDSP) for Public Service pensioners.

Sun Life Financial was selected through a competitive process conducted

this spring. Pensioner representatives from Public Service employees as

well as retired members of the Canadian Forces and the RCMP participated in

the selection process.

"We are pleased that the voluntary Pensioners Dental Services Plan will

soon be available," Madame Robillard said. The target date to introduce the

plan is January 1, 2001.

In 1999, the Government announced its intention to introduce a voluntary

dental services plan for current and future federal Public Service

pensioners, their eligible family members and their eligible survivors. Mr.

Rex Guy, president of the Federal Superannuates National Association (FSNA)

stated, "I know that FSNA members throughout Canada will be happy to learn

that the Pensioners Dental Services Plan is now a major step closer to

becoming a reality."

The PDSP will apply to any current pensioner who receives a pension under

the Public Service Superannuation Act, the Canadian Forces Superannuation

Act, the Defence Services Pension Continuation Act, the Royal Canadian

Mounted Police Superannuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Pension Continuation Act, the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances

Act, or the Judges Act. It would apply also to most future pensioners who

become recipients of pensions under these Acts.


The PDSP is similar to the current dental plan for federal Government

employees with respect to coverage, deductibles, maximums, and eligible

services and benefits. The cost will be shared between the Government and

Plan members on a 60/40 basis. Specific details of the Plan, including

contribution rates, will be determined following discussions with the new

Plan Administrator.

"Sun Life Financial welcomes this opportunity to build on our solid

partnership with the federal Government," said Kevin Dougherty,

Vice-President, Group Insurance, "and we look forward to serving the

members who join the Pensioners Dental Services Plan."

Plan details and an enrolment form will be sent, in the fall, to each

eligible pensioner.

For more information, contact:



Joseph M. Kira

Press Secretary

Office of the President of the Treasury Board

of Canada and Minister responsible for


(613) 957-2666


GisŤle Bťlanger

Media Relations

Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat

(613) 957-2394

TTY (Telecommunications device for the hearing impaired) (613) 957-9090

This news release is available on two networks:


Government Enterprise Network (GENet):



A further bit of news, for BC members, on Representation agreements, which

are to be required with any new Power of Attorney documents, created after

5 Sep, 2000.

I have been advised by a Victoria practicing lawyer that the BC Gov't has

delayed, for one year, the implimentation date, of 5 September, 2000.




For more info on subjects like the status of the court case against the

Federal Gov't, contesting the Gov't's taking $30 Billion out of our pension

fund, go to our FSNA website at: